The great divide
See the comments
posted by Shira Salamone at 10:32 PM
Saturday, March 05, 2011
About Me
- Name: Shira Salamone
Once upon a time, I belonged to a left-wing egalitarian Conservative synagogue, where I was one of a number of women who wore a tallit—and one of the few members who used an Orthodox prayer book (adding the Mothers, of course). Having moved since then, I now belong to a right-wing traditional Conservative synagogue, where I’m almost always the only woman wearing a tallit—and one of the few members who adds the Mothers. I seem destined to be forever . . . on the fringe.
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13 Comments:
Please see next comment.
Kindly keep going.
Please be patient, and continue to next comment.
Sorry, please keep going.
Your patience will soon be rewarded.
Last delay.
This is yet another one of my (in)famous "hidden" posts, hidden in the comments so that my colleagues would have to actually scroll and click to read them. I don't know how much of a secret it is to my office-mates that I blog, but I can't afford to be too obvious, especially when writing about the office, since I like my job and want to keep it.
The actual publication date of this post is Tuesday, April 5, 2011.
I overheard one co-worker trying to explain to another that, among the Orthodox, there's a mechitzah (a barrier or balcony separating men from women) whenever there's a public event of any kind, be it a wedding or a funeral. I kept my big mouth shut, for once, but I found the conversation a tad upsetting. I've been to lectures, concerts, holiday parties with sit-down meals, kiddushim, and seudot shlishit in Orthodox synagogues, both Ashkenazi and Sefardi, and I can think of only three occasions (all concerts, two with the same chassidic singer) at which there was separate seating. I am aware that separate seating is the norm in many Orthodox communities, but I was not too happy that my co-worker presented this practice as being universally observed within the Orthodox world when my own experience has clearly shown that that's simply not true. I don't think it was fair to give my inquiring co-worker the impression that the entire Orthodox world interprets halachah and/or minhag (custom) the same way.
Maybe my background as a lifelong Conservative Jew gives me an advantage in this regard--I'm so used to the manner of observance of Conservative Jews being quite diverse that I can't imagine trying to portray my own crew as being uniform in our practice of Judaism.
You need to chillax and pity your poor, sheltered coworker. It's easy to think that Orthodoxy is monolithic when that is far from the case. We had separate seating (no mechitza) at our wedding during the chuppah, but had (gasp) mixed seating at the reception. And the retinue of rabbis didn't seem to object.
You need to stop assuming that everyone is as educated, intelligent, or curious as you.
It would be nice if Orthodox Jews knew to speak of leniencies as fact, and stringencies as customs, since that's the "truth." Ultimately, if 80% of the Orthodox world prohibits something, and 20% does it, it is "permitted" until that 20% gives it up.
It wasn't fair that your not so bright co-worker gave an inquiring person an incorrect impression of Orthodoxy, but as I constantly tell my kids, life isn't fair.
Dumb people do dumb things. Dumb Orthodox people do dumb things, dumb "insert any other group" also do dumb things. Dumbness is not lacking in any group of people, Jewish or otherwise.
To try to be charitable to this person, it is possible that they have seen seperation at events to such a large degree, that they actually think it is required.
In reality, according to halacha, they only time there needs to be a seperation with a mechitzah is during davening in a shul setting.
I believe there are opinions that seperation of the genders (without a mechitzah) is required in certain instances, but these are certainly minority opinions.
I beleive that there are opinions that seperate seating at religious functions such as wedding is preferable, and possibly mandatory if it takes place in a shul so one not come to think that mixed seating during davening is OK and get accustomed to mixed seating in shul. Most O wedding that I have been to in shul have both men and women sitting in the men's section, but seperately, but no phsyical barrier. There are also halachic sources that state that gender seperation is required (albiet without a mechitzah) at funerals.
Incidentally, Shira, were you aware, that even according to the Orthodox no mechitzah is required if you have an ad hoc minyan in a place that is not a fixed/regular place of davening. I have seen Orthodox men and women having minyanim (standing seperately, but with no mechitzah) in airports, private homes, rest stops, etc.
" . . . pity your poor, sheltered coworker."
JDub, I must admit that I never thought of this person in quite that way. :)
"It wasn't fair that your not so bright co-worker gave an inquiring person an incorrect impression of Orthodoxy. . ."
That's what got me upset. My co-worker is much better educated Jewishly than I am, but seems to think that what's true of his/her particalr Orthodox community is true of all Orthodox communities.
I guess that being well educated and being sheltered are not mutually exlusive.
" . . . it is possible that they have seen seperation at events to such a large degree, that they actually think it is required."
No doubt.
"There are also halachic sources that state that gender seperation is required (albiet without a mechitzah) at funerals." I've heard this before, and it freaks me out. In my opinion, if a person can't even control herself/himself enough to show respect for the dead by refraining from sexual activies at a funeral, they need a shrink, not a mechitzah.
" . . . were you aware, that even according to the Orthodox no mechitzah is required if you have an ad hoc minyan in a place that is not a fixed/regular place of davening."
Yep, I see this every year after the Israel Day Parade at the post-concert minchah minyan near the food stands.
The prohibition of mixing genders at a funeral is not because of fear that people can't control themselves.
Having the genders seperated adds a greater level of seriousnous to the procedings.
In other words, the genders are not seperated for "fear of what might happen. As far as funerals go, the very fact that the genders are mixed is already something enough happening that is not appropriate.
"Having the genders seperated adds a greater level of seriousnous to the procedings."
I'm not sure I agree with that premise, but at least that makes more sense than the notion that the rabbis were concerned about possible orgies at funerals. I apologize to the rabbis for having misjudged their intention.
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